Neue Heroquest-Version von Gamezone

[Mophus]

Nach Christmas 2018 könnte Thulsa 2025 anpeilen um sich mehr Zeit zu verschaffen. Denn sonst wird es langsam eng. 2039 zum 50-Jährigen, müssten sonst die ganzen Prints wieder angepasst werden. Oder halt doch 2525

[Daemonkiller]

Eigentlich könnten sie das mit den Jahreszahlen gleich lassen und das Ding einfach Heroquest Forever nennen. Wird im Enddefekt eine genauso lange "Entwicklungszeit" wie Duke Nukem Forever haben und ebenso eine Mischung als alten Designs von vor ein paar Jahren und "neuen Inhalten" haben und auch ne Mega Enttäuschung werden

[Lagoil]

Hallo,

ich bestellte trotz besseren Wisens bei GameZone am Freaky Friday ein paar HQ25 Figuren. Und zu meiner positiven Überraschung habe ich alle Figuren gestern erhalten. Es gab sogar drei geschenkte Figuren dazu. Das fand ich recht nett. Dabei war ein Goblin, den ich gleich mal neben einen originalen HQ-Goblin gehalten habe. Der neue Goblin ist über einen Kopf größer. Auch vom Stil passen sie nicht perfekt zusammen, aber das ist Geschmacksache.

Und noch etwas positives ist zu schreiben. Es waren viele rote Paiertütchen mit dem HQ25-Logo dabei.Die sind also fertig.

Die Figuren sehen auf den ersten Blick gut gearbeitet aus. Meisten finde ich die feinen Fehler ohnehin erst beim malen. Das wahrscheinliche Scheitern des Projekts wird also nicht an kreativer Unfähigkeit gelegen haben.

Viele Grüße
Lagoil

[Vainamoinen]

And how much will this delay be? Unfortunately I cannot give you an exact date, but an approximate time, we have been assured that in around of 4 to 6 weeks we should have everything here.

HQ Webseite am 31. März 2017

Bitte, Bitte kauft möglichst viel bei GameZone ein, damit ich irgendwannmal mein Spiel in den Händen halten kann.

Ponzi-Masche geht immer schief.

[Legolas]

Ich habe doch damals, so lange kommt es mir schon vor, geschrieben:
...ich glaube es erst wenn ich das Spiel in der Hand habe...

[vysogota]

Hi Leute,

frohes Neues erstmal (so viel Zeit muss sein )!

Habe heute eine mail aus Spanien bekommen. Mein Spanisch ist nicht gut, es hört sich aber nicht gut an, was der gute Mann da schreibt. Lasse sie gerade übersetzen... .

[Tea]

Lass hören.

[vysogota]

Es hat sich rausgestellt, dass der vermeintliche Insider anscheinend einfach nur Passagen aus spanischen Foren rezitiert hat und das wohl auch noch ziemlich schlecht. Sorry, bin sprachlich nicht fit genug, um das sofort erkannt zu haben.

Ich hab heute meine 3 Vorbestellungen bei deutschen Händlern storniert. GZ hat es tatsächlich geschafft, dass ich kein Interesse mehr an dem Spiel hab. Und das heißt schon was.... Ich drücke allen, die noch hoffen, die Daumen! cu

[Tea]

Ein spanischer Artikel. Übersetzt via Googletranslator.

Heroquest 25 Anniversary', the 'crowdfunding' of the board game that left five thousand people

With an initial departure date scheduled for December 2014 and a collection of 680,000 euros, the most successful project in Spain to date has not yet been delivered

JON SEDANOMalaga
Sunday, January 21, 2018, 09:47

" Patience, I only ask for patience ", repeats Dionisio Rubio several times during the interview of more than two hours offered to this medium. But the reality is that many patrons are already tired of waiting since in February 2014 the 'crowdfunding' of the board game 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' achieved a collection of 680,037 euros. Its creator, under the brand name Gamezone, needed a financing of 58,000 euros for the project to see the light. The nostalgia and promises of numerous extra material made the figure reach 1100% of what was required. Now, with several demands on the table , many patrons do not know what has happened to the project. But to understand the current situation well, we must go back to 1989 .

At the end of the 80s, the company MB and Games Workshop launched the board game 'Heroquest' . In it, the essence of classic RPGs, such as 'Dragons and Dungeons', was transferred to the board. The success was resounding . Soon, many young people spent their evenings throwing dice and fighting enemies in what has already become a classic, to the point of paying large sums of money for him now. The years passed and the game only obtained a second edition and expansions published at the beginning of the 1990s. For this reason, the Gamezone company based in Seville , which has been producing miniatures since 2000, decided to launch a patronage campaign to revive it. "There was a rumble in the net , and as nobody was thrown, we decided to do it ", explains Dionisio Rubio.


The rights, an unexpected play
"I was surprised to see that the rights to the 'Heroquest' brand in Spain were in the hands of a private individual, not Hasbro." After taking them and contacting the parent company, he explains that they realized they could publish the game in Europe, but to do it in the US they had to negotiate with the one who had them in that country. "I thought the hard part was going to be dealing with Hasbro, but it was the easiest thing to do. It was a long process, but it paid off. The complicated thing was to negotiate with the possessor of rights in the US, who asked us for conditions that we could not face. In fact, here I realized why a new version of the game has not come out: it is difficult for Hasbro to want to do it when he can not publish it in his country of origin ".

With all this, they ventured to launch it on the crowdfunding platform par excellence , which is based in Canada, Kickstarter . On November 25, 2013, the 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' campaign was launched for the first time and in just one day it exceeded 400% of the necessary funding . But soon everything would be darkened. Three days later, Kickstarter suspended the project in a precautionary manner due to an intellectual property dispute. The holder of the rights in the USA had sent a letter to the platformexplaining that he owned the brand in his country and that in August "he had explicitly denied Gamezone permission to publish it there", since he had intended to create one based on the license. According to Rubio, when he saw that they were not going to reach any agreement, he decided to abandon the project and go to a Spanish platform , more specifically to Verkami .


"Verkami volunteered and collected information for a week knowing that we were going to go to her. They saw that there was no legal problem and launched the project on December 8, "but four hours later, the platform canceled it. "It was due to pressure from the community. From day one we generated a lot of interest and a lot of people started a boycott campaign because they did not like the idea of ​​playing the game. "

Send us the call for help
On December 23, 2013, "Heroquest 25 Anniversary" was reborn , although with less force than on the first occasion. Lánzanos was the platform that decided to give an opportunity to the project . "We do not accept or reject projects, unless it is something crazy, are the patrons themselves who choose whether they are born or not with their shares," says Gregorio Lopez, CEO of the platform. It also adds that they " never received any notice of infringement of rights in an official manner , but only the pressure of some users".

At the end, when the campaign ended on February 13, 2014, the collection obtained stood at 680,037 euros . Of that amount, Lánzanos stayed with 5% (approximately 34,000 euros) and Paypal with 3.5% for each payment. Even so, the platform saved an additional 2.5% "for what was behind the Heroquest" according to its CEO (an amount that Dionisio Rubio has now claimed through a bureaufax). In the words of Rubio, Gamezone received just under 600,000 euros.

The price of the game ranged from 60 to 110 euros . The most expensive option was chosen by more patrons, since with it, in addition to the game itself, many extras would be received. As for the delivery date, 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' would arrive at the houses in December 2014. In the explanation of the project itself, it could be read: "The time window we have to carry out this project is close, but enough for us, with the funds that we can raise with this crowdfunding, we will be able to face the completion of the creative phase and the prototypes , to start producing the components throughout the first half of 2014. We have the knowledge and the tools, but not the capital, we lack the funds that we now request, with the adequate funds 'Heroquest 25th Anniversary' you can see the light in time for the Christmas of 2014. "But it was not so, in fact, its creator now mentions in the interview that" a game like this, in such a short time, has not served anyone. "

The castle in the air begins to collapse
Information about the state of the game began to diminish, something that usually happens in most projects. But in this case, they went from being daily to publishing only six more until the supposed delivery date, which already vanished in November under an update published on its website, Heroquestclassic.es. "People wrote and responded almost immediately during the campaign, sold the idea of ​​constant updates, every two or three weeks and was receiving the money and not knowing anything about the issue, " recalls Angel Aguilar, who founded in June of that same year the Facebook group ' Quiero mi Heroquest 25 Aniversario ', which currently has 3,200 users.

In February 2015, a new update announced the beginning of the reservation period on its website, through which the base game could be purchased without the additional extras. The distributor of Germany and E-Minis , which is the one in Spain, took several thousand units, of which they also advanced part of the money. In total, there would be 6,000 games for patrons and 10,000 for commercial sales. The rumors began to emerge in the network: "Dionisio had spent all the budget on machinery and had no more to continuethe project". But Rubio responds to this accusation: "That rumor is nonsense. Just click on the network to see that the cost of the six machines we bought to reinforce the one we had is absurd compared to the budget. What we did was to mechanize our workshop to be able to produce both the content of the patrons and the one we would take to the stores ".


So it was. Photographs published by those who approached the old workshop they had in Seville demonstrate the manufacture of miniatures. According to Dionisio, around one million units. But how is it possible that what was done in less than a year, three years after that date has not yet been delivered? Especially taking into account that the emails of the patrons who requested the return of the contribution in 2015, Gamezone answered with a refusal "due to the status of the project, almost completed." Rubio's explanation is that it was because of a restart of the project.

As they had already failed on the initial date, they decided to take the project more calmly to improve some components that did not have the quality they were looking for in a hurry. According to its creator, "the final product was going to be watched with a magnifying glass" and therefore all the components had to be as perfect as possible. For E-Minis, the problem of the 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' has been "a bad planning for wanting to offer so many things at such a low price and of such good quality" . "We've seen it, that's why we always tell people to leave them alone so they can continue with the project," adds the distributor, who also specifies that today, they continue to receive cancellations and new reservations every day.

Anyway, the game still did not arrive and the trickle of updates caused a group of sponsors to send a bureaufax requesting information about the real state of the project in December 2015.

The dream turns into a nightmare
"Lánzanos tried to get rid of the dead man. His idea in principle was to help, but he did it all in a very 'light' way and he stayed in the water of booze. Right now there is the promise in time that they are going to do something. They said to create an association to move the legal issue but had to put money, "adds Aguilar.

Indeed, Lánzanos sent a statement to all the patrons, only two years later, in April 2016 . In this email they apologized for their silence and added that they would head the decision that the patrons would make. A survey was conducted and the vast majority chose to request information. The second burofax, now on behalf of the platform requesting information about the real state, reached Dionisio. But I did not succeed. In the last communication sent by Lánzanos, in July 2016, it was explained to the patrons that his lawyer was preparing a complaint. Complaint that never came to court .

"We have not filed the complaint because the lawyers advised us not to do it , because we were going to lose it. They are the patrons who have to denounce, not us. They have complied with us because we charge our share of the income, "explains Gregorio López, who adds that" it may sound selfish not wanting to move the hornet's nest, but every time he did it, they called 200 people over the phone. "

The CEO explains: "There is no jurisprudence, the most similar is that of ticket sales companies . By judicial means Dionisio can be defended, but by the civil way the law of the trade allows to request the money if the game does not leave or it does not look like the promised thing. In 'crowdfunding' there is talk of investing in an idea , of making someone's dream come true, even if VAT is paid, it is an investment . They consider us as an 'online' store that delivers a product expanded over time. "

The average of failed patronage is around 10%, according to López, but "since most projects are small and invest in friends and family, nothing happens". It also clarifies that they are a platform to connect creators with patrons , but that beyond that, they have no responsibility. The lawyer Chema Valdivia explains that Law 5/2015 for the promotion of business financing, which includes a regulation on investment sponsorship, does not include crowdfunding: "Its scope refers to financing in exchange for a monetary return, not in exchange for a delivery of movable property, as in this case a game. Some argue that it is a risk, such as a work of art or a stock market investment, but it is more like a sale to put a product on sale. The problem, in addition to the law, is that in Spain there are no precedents . "

A new rumor began to spread through the network: "'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' was a scam, it would never come out . " But the photos of the updates and the opinions of the patrons and distributors who had gone to the store said otherwise. The miniatures existed and the state of the game seemed to be advanced, but it still did not arrive. "Whether or not a scam has to be decided by a judge, but there must be fraud in order to have a scam. Has Dionisio intended to defraud patrons? It is very difficult to know . You have to see what the money has been spent on, whether it was in machinery or in a Mercedes, and if everything is due to mismanagement or an intention to cheat, "explains Valdivia.

Slash and new text
The user Jul SG, tired of waiting, presented on September 27, 2016 a verbal trial suit against Dionisio Rubio , Gamezone and Ludofilia SL, the latter a new company that the creator established two months after concluding the campaign. "They did not offer any information and that angered me. They have given false hopes and have played with the illusion and nostalgia for a product that many wanted. In the bases they established that the conditions of the project were going to be fulfilled, but they have not done it. I tried it by mail, OCU and in the end, judicial means ", explains the patron. The ruling was resolved in favor of the user and forced Dionisio Rubio to have to deliver the game in six months or return the money , the latter being what happened.

From that moment, Jul SG became champion of the patrons for winning a court ruling and getting the money . "I have continued to help because it is only fair. People say that the subject is very complicated or that it will cost more than the product to claim, but it is not true: investigate, worry about advising and you will see that it is not so. I do not position myself in favor of getting the money or waiting for the game, I am in the middle ground. As I investigated the subject for myself and I see people very lost, I help them by solving doubts and explaining what steps they have to follow, with examples of the writings to be presented. "

But Jul SG indicates that during the process modifications have been made in the bases of both : "Lánzanos explained in its conditions that if a project did not reach the patrons, they 'would be forced to intervene', but after starting the problems erased that part, in addition to a variation of 110 euros in the collection. Dionisio Rubio sold the product as Gamezone, although he did it under his NIF, but when he created Ludofilia SL and started to manage through it Heroquest, judicially he had to sue the three names to avoid mistakes ".

The CEO of Lánzanos responds to this statement by saying that the concept of 'intervening' is very ambiguous and that they modified the bases simply by updating themselves . Dionisio Rubio points out that the creation of Ludofilia SL does not interfere with the game, although in the copyright of the website heroquestclassic.com one can read "Ludofilia SL 2013 - 2016". The year 2013 would encompass the 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' campaign, but on that date the limited company had not yet been set up. In addition, according to Jul SG, some patrons received from Rubio a reply to his claim arguing that the sentence should go against Ludofilia SL, not against him.

With a new official delivery date, March 2017, a rhythm of constant updates during 2016 and the presentation of the game during the Expocómic event in Madrid that took place at the end of 2016 , it was demonstrated that the project was continuing. Of course, many patrons complained that the quality of some components, such as letters, was not what was expected. But March passed and the game did not arrive.

It is not a question of accounts, but of dice
If to date two lawsuits had been filed by judicial means, in 2017, with the facilities that SG SG contributed, the number exceeded 30. The Francisco García from Malaga is one of those affected who filed a claim in July of that year: " I spent about 150 euros. I still have not recovered the money for an error in the courts, but I'm waiting for them to call me when it's resolved. After the experience I have the feeling that they are laughing at me and that Dionisio can do and undo what he wants . Another responsible has also been Lánzanos, who has not moved a finger for the patrons, has made a mere intermediary and over came to ask for money to sue after raising a significant amount.

The rumor that Dionisio had spent all the money from the project for bad management and that he no longer had more liquidity to face the costs of logistics and shipping was gaining more and more strength. Especially when the network showed alleged accounts reports Ludofilia SL company , where you could see that it had a deficit of 67,000 euros . Also, an eviction order from his old warehouse in Seville cited for February 12, 2018 for a non-payment of 18,000 euros, did not help to silence them either.


" We have spent more money than we got , because the production is not only for the 4,500 games of the patrons, plus the 1,500 that we add later, but for the 16,000 that we will create in total. From the minute one that we saw that figure we raised a higher production and look for new financing, "explains Dionisio in an interview published on its website .

But what makes the project, which was to have finally come out in March 2017, still not arrive? Dice . As Dionisio explains, "if an element is missing and it is fundamental, it can not be sent, either the die or the top of the box". It adds that it is a technical problem, so "can not be solved with money, or with time, because money has been paid what had to be paid and time has been spent that had to be thrown, and even that is not solved, can not be sent ".

According to the Riera company from Alicante, responsible for producing that material, as well as the rest of the plastic components of the game, the technical problems have already been solved: "Everything that used to be cardboard was made of plastic. We have already packaged and shipped almost 80% of the production to Seville. From a year ago until now we have made a trial and error process with the dice. We have created everything from nothing and although technical problems arose, we have already solved them. Dionisio, they will say what they will say, but he is a very perfectionist man and if he has to throw a product four or five times back because he is not convinced by the finish, it does. It is a project that grew a lot in a short time. And I hope it does not take much longer. It remains to finish producing some small piece of last minute, but the final product will be spectacular and will enchant the public. "

The absence of these pieces, which from Riera confirm that they are already paid , also makes it necessary to produce everything concerning paper: "With printing there is no problem, it is simply a matter of choreography. Everything is printed when all the components are present, because it is a material sensitive to humidity and spoiling. It is also something that takes a lot. A space that neither I nor have the printer, who has a weekly production in which he prints and sends ".

Once everything is in Seville, the product will be packaged and sent, although that will be handled by another company , because according to Rubio "will go faster, more organized and without the stress they have".

Will the 'Heroquest 25th Anniversary' ever come to the patrons?
With all the cards on the table, or better said miniatures, will the 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' finally shine? Its creator, the distributor and some patrons are clear that yes , although they do not know when exactly; others, on the other hand, believe that it will never come out, among which is the own Lánzanos. Jul SG, who has done an exhaustive follow-up of the project thinks about it: "Based on the statement of accounts, it is remotely possible. They are trying it despite having a negative balance higher than 60,000 euros, but you need people to distribute it, to send it, etc. ".

From the company Riera they affirm categorically that 'Heroquest 25 Anniversary' is going to come out and explain that the problems have come about due to their great scope, since "Gamezone competes with multinationals". Dionisio Rubio exemplifies what takes time on the network with a traffic jam on the road : "You are standing with the car in a caravan and instead of waiting you start whistling or shouting". Meanwhile, he repeats that "he only asks for patience" .

[Vainamoinen]

Especially when the network showed alleged accounts reports Ludofilia SL company , where you could see that it had a deficit of 67,000 euros . Also, an eviction order from his old warehouse in Seville cited for February 12, 2018 for a non-payment of 18,000 euros, did not help to silence them either.

Da komme ich nicht mal auf eine leise Hoffnung. Diese 18.000 Euro verschwinden ja auch nicht einfach, nur weil der Vermieter das Geld für den Anwalt nicht aufbringt. Sollten die auf irgendeine Weise wieder liquide werden, schwupps, steht auch der Besitzer des Lagerhauses wieder vor der Tür. Und DANN kommen die 67.000 Euro Defizit.

Was sie überhaupt noch an Geld brauchen, um die Dinger fertigzustellen, ist unklar, aber klar ist, was sie zusätzlich für Verpackung und Versand von 4.500 kiloschweren Boxen an die Backer brauchen! Wenn ich da mit nur 20€ pro Nase rechne – und bei Versand in einige EU-Staaten wird's deutlich teurer – sind das bereits, festhalten, 90.000 Euro. Von der Arbeitskraft, die es braucht, die Dinger einzupacken, zu adressieren, zu frankieren, ganz zu schweigen.

Unterm Strich fehlen da über 150.000 € und m. E. wohl eher eine Viertelmillion.

[Tea]

Laut "Quiero mi Heroquest" war HeroQuest France zu Besuch in Sevilla und will bald mit tollen Informationen rausrücken.
Im Hinterkopf sollte man behalten, dass HQF immer sehr pro GZ war.

[Mulambo]

Ich kann mir noch immer beim besten Willen nicht vorstellen, wie man das Ungetüm durch den Dungeon manövrieren soll
Da muss man ja jedes Segment einzeln neu hinlegen/anordnen. Und dann erst bei Kurven.

Ein bischen kurz ist er auch geraten. Zum Glück bekomme ich 2 Set's, dann kann ich den Wurm 2x so lang machen

[Iwanhoa]

Zum Glück bekomme ich 2 Set's, dann kann ich den Wurm 2x so lang machen

bestimmt..... Ganz sicher bekommt ihr noch das was ihr alle bestellt habt.......

[knightkrawler]

Ich kann mich sehr gut an HQF's abschied aus dem Inn erinnern. Wie bringt mich seine damalige arroganz heute zum lachen!

der wurm da übrigens auch. man stelle sich den in braun vor.

[Tea]

Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, falls das Spiel je versendet wird, dass auch wirklich alles in der Box ist was da eigentlich rein sollte.
Bestimmt fehlen Figuren des jeweiligen Pledges. Würde da sogar drauf wetten!